Schiller Institute Webcast Dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche

Diplomacy, or Collision of Two Galaxies?

The following is an edited transcript of the weekly Schiller Institute dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche on Wednesday, March 27, 2024. Embedded links have been added. The video is available here.

Harley Schlanger: Welcome to our weekly dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche, founder and chairwoman of the Schiller Institute. Today is Wednesday, March 27, 2024. I’m Harley Schlanger and I’ll be your host. If you have questions or comments, you can send them by email to questions@schillerinstitute.org.

Helga, let’s begin with developments from the last few days: First there was the UN Security Council vote on a new resolution, calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. This time it passed, with 14 votes and 1 abstention. The U.S., instead of vetoing it, abstained, which means it passed. And also then, the filing in Geneva of a report by the UN Special Rapporteur for Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, Francesca Albanese, who said that the time is now to stop genocide against the Palestinians.

Now a viewer has written to us saying: “The pressure on Biden is obviously increasing to get a settlement, as is the pressure on Netanyahu to stop the genocide. But what more must be done to assure compliance on a ceasefire, and move to a real peace in the Middle East?” And she writes, “I have registered for the Oasis Plan conference.” So those are the first questions for you.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche: The UN Security Council vote is binding. But then the question is, will Israel regard that as obligatory to follow? And if not, the question is what other measures must be taken?

In any case, we can only suggest changing the entire outlook: That is why the Oasis Plan conference must be a really powerful intervention, and I think what you can do is help us to build the conference. Get as many individuals as possible, but also organizations—from the region, from Southwest Asia, but also from the United States and from Europe and other parts of the world—to put in their weight, because this is so enormous. The United States could have stopped it from the very beginning; now they are under pressure to do something. But the big question is, will they? And I think the only thing one can do is to have the whole world, like a powerful chorus, demanding that the suffering of the people in the region should stop, and therefore that the Oasis Plan should be implemented. Just imagine, if the BRICS countries would all say that, if all the neighbors would say that—Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Iraq, Syria, Türkiye—and then beyond that all the countries of Europe. And if everybody would demand that, it could happen! So that is the purpose of this conference: that we can build momentum and show people a vision for how, through economic development, peace can be established.

But I think it does require, like everything else in this incredibly dangerous moment in history, it does require an enormous amount of mobilization of people of goodwill. So, help us to build this conference. And help us by pointing out people we should contact; people you are contacting. Get mayors, city councils, congress members, parliamentarians, to endorse it. The more such voices we have, the better.

Schlanger: This is an online conference, and you can register for it at the Schiller Institute website. It will be on April 13, at 11 a.m. EDT. And this is one of those moments in history where the kind of discussion that is going to take place will be outside of the control of the establishment, which means we can assure it will be an honest, serious discussion. So, take what Helga is saying seriously and help us to build for it.

Now, Helga, on that there are some more emails that have come in on the same general idea of what you were just proposing. For example, one person writes: “The system is collapsing, its leaders have little support. What about a call for a global general strike?” And someone else asked, “What about an international day of action? Are there other ideas that the Schiller Institute has that can move the situation much more quickly in the right direction?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Well, in theory that would be a good idea, but I don’t know how practical it is. If we were to call for an international strike, who would follow? An international day of action sounds more practical.

But I think the way to look at it is that we have to organize people on the idea that we need a completely different approach, because we really are on the verge of World War III. The Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)—this is a group of American dissidents, one could say, formerly working for the military, CIA, the State Department, National Security Agency—they have formed this organization known as the VIPS, which just released an incredibly important memorandum to President Biden about the proposal by French President Macron to send French troops—any NATO troops—into Ukraine. The memo makes clear that Macron’s proposal brings us to the brink of nuclear war. And there are rumors that there are already 2,000 troops prepared to be sent. The VIPS warn that if not stopped, this would lead the Europeans as well as the United States into to a nuclear war; what could become annihilation.

This is very important, because that is the reality, and we will probably get more into this in terms of the terrorist attack in Moscow. If you look at what’s happening, we are in a completely out-of-control situation. Therefore, we must quickly initiate a discussion that we are the intelligent human species; we are gifted with reason and capable of defining solutions out of a seemingly hopeless situation. That is why I have proposed since November 2022, the idea of a New International Security and Development Architecture, which must take into account the interests of every single country.

I think that is a concept which is extremely important for people to start to discuss; to think about what it would mean to create a world order where every nation can live! Because if we do not get off the geopolitical confrontation between NATO on the one side, Russia, China, on the other side, a little mistake—there are people who say, “Oh, no. This will never happen. They won’t let it occur.” Well, if you look at the history before World War I and the history before World War II, you can clearly identify in each case the moment when it was too late. You can’t predict the future, because there is such a thing as free will and you can always change the dynamic. But looking back in history, you can definitely say, at that moment it was too late. And we are right now in such a period where nobody knows, but a lot of people are absolutely scared, because the present establishments do not seem to be guided by wisdom, but in part by illusionary dreams! And I think that’s very scary.

So, my suggestion is, we could think about an international day of action. We now have the Easter celebrations next weekend. In Europe, many marches are being planned. You should go there; deploy. We have a leaflet on our website, “Our Outcry Must Not Come Too Late!” You can download this leaflet, in multiple languages from the Schiller Institute social media. If you don’t have that leaflet, take another one. Go to these marches, which will be held in many places in Europe. And in the United States, you can go to church services; take this leaflet, go there and distribute it. Contact our offices and let’s build! Because to make a day of action worldwide, it does require some preparation. But if you mobilize this coming weekend, that would be a first step.

And then think about a larger effort which would be the idea of a New International Security and Development Architecture: That requires more organizing, but you can enter that discussion with us right now.

Schlanger: We have an email from a contact from Palestine, who was quite upset by the meeting that took place between Israel’s Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin. He said: “What a hypocrite! Austin said more must be done for humanitarian concerns for the Palestinians, but that the United States would continue to support Israel.” And he said, “Don’t they see, children are dying every day. Mothers are dying, grandparents are dying; there’s starvation everywhere. Don’t they see that the world is looking at them as a bunch of immoral, evil hypocrites?”

Zepp-LaRouche: I think the report which you mentioned in the beginning by Francesca Albanese, who is this UN Special Rapporteur, she made a speech yesterday in Geneva before the UN Human Rights Council, in which she presented her findings of her report that she’s called, “Anatomy of a Genocide,” and she goes again through all arguments and descriptions which we know already from the International Court of Justice.

Yes! It is genocide! It is perpetrated before the eyes of the world public. And I said this a long time ago: This is the moral test, that if we cannot stop that, if we cannot intervene in such a way to immediately stop this, it falls back on whether we are morally fit to survive as a human species? And I’m afraid to say that for some places, the answer is almost clearly “no,” because the governments, which after all of this evidence has been presented and is accessible—It’s not like the Nazis 80 years ago. There, people could with some credibility claim that they didn’t know; and that is still being discussed and investigated by historians: how much did people know? And the majority for sure could not know and did not know because there was an effort to conceal it.

But in this case, there is no effort to conceal it. It’s out there in front of the eyes of the world, and therefore I think that that is really a test of our ability to survive as a human species: Are we humans or are we not?

We need to mobilize to shift this as we discussed with the Oasis Plan for Southwest Asia.

Schlanger: Helga, you mentioned the “VIPS Memo: The French Road to Nuclear War.” There was another, similar comment this week by Viktor Orbán, the Prime Minister of Hungary, who referred to the talk of the war-hawks at the European Union Summit, backing the Macron proposal. He said it was like “entering a second galaxy.” A friend of the Schiller Institute in Europe said: “While these kinds of interventions are crucial, are there others in Europe speaking out against Global NATO? And what can be done to bring more people out?”

Zepp-LaRouche: I think there are people—I think the image which Prime Minister Orbán uses about the “two galaxies” is exactly right, because sometimes you have the feeling there are people, like probably many of those watching this program, who are extremely concerned that the present geopolitical confrontation is bringing mankind into a danger like never before. And I think they are aware of the fact that, because of the breakdown of trust, breakdown of all disarmament agreements and arms control agreements, that the present situation is much, much more dangerous than at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis! Because at that time, Kennedy and Khrushchev did still talk to each other; there were back-channel discussions, so the situation could be defused.

Now, if you had, like after this March 22 terrorist attack outside Moscow, if it comes out that the attack traces back to the Anglo-American countries, which is mooted—Putin and the FSB have basically said that they’re investigating who gave the order to ISIS to conduct these terrorist attacks. If that leads to countries in the West, we could be in a situation much worse than the Cuban Missile Crisis in minutes. Therefore, I think there are people who are concerned with that. And we know many of them, not all of them, but I would say it’s a significant minority.

But then you have the other galaxy, and these are people who say, “Oh, the Russians are only bluffing. Don’t worry. We already crossed so many red lines and they didn’t do anything—so let’s cross another red line.” And I think that that is really scary: Because the people who are in that other galaxy seem to be completely numb in terms of the danger that represents for the entire existence of civilization. I think the main problem we have is that the NATO apparatus is controlling the narrative. Sometimes little cracks occur, like Victoria Nuland losing her position, because of the cracks in the whole thing.

But for the most part, I think the key question is can we mobilize the conscience and the sense of self-preservation, self-reliance in the majority of that other galaxy in time?

Schlanger: I do have a question for you that came in on the terror attack in Moscow. This person writes, “Whether it was Ukraine or not that was directly behind it, the authors behind this are the same as those behind the proxy war with the intent to destroy Russia. And you can see it from some of the neocons, who are gleeful about this happening against Russia. It’s clear they have no humanity. But, what does this say about the problems in the Western media that continue to attack Russia, saying ‘this is Putin’s fault, Putin deserved it’?” The question is, “What can you say overall about this attack that occurred in Moscow?”

Zepp-LaRouche: I think one argument I was reading earlier was that in civilized societies, you would condemn any kind of terrorism no matter who is the target. And somebody said when some atrocity happened in Ukraine, in Berlin, the Brandenburg Gate was illuminated in the colors of Ukraine, yellow and blue. So, is the Brandenburg Gate being illuminated now in the Russian colors? Obviously not. So that reflects how the world is not civilized and people are condoning things which are totally inhuman.

But I think this is really a very dangerous moment, because Putin just met with the prosecutors, investigators, and other officials, and obviously instructed them to conduct the investigation. And if it turns out that it was not just this ISIS—Putin raised the cui bono: Who would profit from it? And I can only advise people, look at the video my late husband, Lyndon LaRouche, made in 1999: It’s a two-and-a-half-hour video, called Storm Over Asia. But if you watch the first 10 or 15 minutes, it is absolutely breathtaking. This was at the time of the wars in the North Caucasus, and he said that the people who have been involved in the Great Game for a very long time, they have these terrorist mercenaries, which are recruited and deployed for whatever purpose in a destabilization against Russia, China, Iran. And if you listen to Lyndon LaRouche in that video—just listen to the first 10 minutes or so, and you will get an absolute grasp of what is happening now. You replace “North Caucasus” with “Ukraine,” and everything corresponds to the situation today.

I think it is that deep-rooted Great Game destabilization of trying to dismantle Russia—and nowadays, you have the Jamestown Foundation; you have this other organization, called “Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum,” and they are definitely talking—and probably not only talking—about dismantling Russia; cutting it into 12 or more pieces. And I think the Russians are extremely aware of this fact. That’s why when we cross the line—and Putin has reaffirmed, he is not changing the nuclear doctrine of Russia, which this Sergei Karaganov had suggested. Putin said, no, he will not change the nuclear doctrine, which says that if the territory of Russia is threatened, Russia would probably deploy nuclear weapons.

But my whole reading of the situation is that anybody who is playing with the use of nuclear weapons as the means to settle this conflict, is clinically insane. And I’m pretty much convinced that both China and Russia will do everything possible to not use nuclear weapons. But if you have these kinds of destabilizations—Wars never work as they are planned: You have an incident. As a reaction to this terrorist attack near Moscow, there was an incursion where a Russian missile for 39 seconds or so entered the Polish airspace, and immediately, naturally, other fighter planes took off. It’s these kinds of little things which could trigger a catastrophe. And we should not forget that right now, we still have until May this very large NATO maneuver, called Steadfast Defender 2024, where 90,000 troops are being deployed. They’re rehearsing the transference of large numbers of troops and so forth: It’s these kinds of maneuvers which could go out of control, very quickly, if some accident occurs. That’s why I’m asking for a change in mentality; that we have to stop this thinking that—and right now I think it’s really on the edge.

Schlanger: OK, now here’s a question for you from someone from Italy, saying that they rely on the Schiller Institute for an analysis of what’s happening in Europe; and they write: “What happened to the Meloni government? Supposedly it was going to be anti-NATO, possibly anti-European Union; instead, it’s become pro-war, pro-NATO. And they also broke the Memo of Understanding with the Belt and Road Initiative with China. What happened?”

Zepp-LaRouche: I think it’s exactly what happened many times, that somebody claims to be for sovereignty of a country, like in that case, Italy; or in France, there are many sovereignists. But then, when push comes to shove, somehow the strings are pulled, and then people are pro-European Union, pro-NATO, pro-war, pro-weapons delivery to all kinds of places. I think unfortunately that the present system works in such a way that they have their cluster agents—their agents of influence—and they make sure that each organization is staying in line. You can actually make a list of such people—in journalism, in the political parties—who have that kind of a role. And unless people start to recognize that as part of the system of control, I think it will continue to work that way.

I think, concerning the Memorandum of Understanding, right now there is enormous pressure by the EU to not have relations with Russia and China. This plays out right now, for example, in the western Balkans; there are elections in the next several days, and Serbian President Vucic said that in the next two, three days, there will be enormous challenges in his country.

So, I think there is an enormous effort to try to prevent such a thing. But on the other side, I think the voice of the Global South, of the countries that suffered from colonialism for 600 years, even if they are all under attack—You see what’s happening in Egypt right now, with the IMF; in Ethiopia, also similar. There is now a new scandal being discovered in South Africa; Argentina naturally is under massive attack with President Milei in there.

So, it’s not a battle without difficulties, but given the fact that the Global South is the Global Majority—they represent 85% or so of the world population—I think that the danger is that everything, everybody is being pulled down. But I’m also quite confident that the majority of the countries of the world, right now with the BRICS-Plus, that there is actually an effort to create a new economic system, where everybody can actually develop and develop their own resources, and become, not super-rich, but to have a decent living standard for all of their people. That is a wish, and that is a trend of the time, which I think is stronger than all the efforts of destabilization.

Schlanger: Well, in response to what you’ve been discussing, we have two new questions that just came in. One is: “How can basic beliefs and social values be depoliticized voluntarily and not forcibly?” And related to that is a question: “The Schiller Institute emphasis on cultural dialogue against the Great Game is so important, based on the concept from your fundamental principles that all human beings are made in the image and likeness of God. Is there an effort underway to get more artists to speak out, as part of the bigger effort of the International Peace Coalition?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Yes. I just this morning had a very good discussion with some friends about the need to strengthen the dialogue of civilizations. Because, I think many of our viewers, that’s you, probably in these very, very difficult days, sometimes have a feeling that the whole world is becoming so horrible—many people say, “I don’t watch the news anymore, because it’s just one horror show after the other”—that it is so important to keep a sense of beauty, to keep a sense of creativity, to keep a sense of what mankind is capable of in a positive way, which is expressed in the composition of Classical music, of beautiful poetry, of beautiful paintings. So, I will take your question as a reminder and as an encouragement: We will have many, many efforts to organize Classical concerts, a Dialogue of Civilizations representing the best expressions of Chinese culture, of European culture, of African culture: And have that be the substance of discussion among people. I think this is so important to uplift the soul, because this sort of having a vision of what mankind should be, that should motivate us to try to realize it in reality, rather than proceeding from reality and then going straight to hell, because that’s where we seem to be headed.

I think the task of poets and musicians to uplift people is more important now than ever before. So, if you are an artist, contact us, help us to build concerts and such dialogues of culture.

Schlanger: I have one more question from someone who identifies herself as an old friend of the late, departed Renée Sigerson, who says that she’s very hopeful that the LaRouche Legacy Foundation will be putting out more material and making it available. And she asks, “Where does that program stand right now?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Oh, that is definitely making progress. We have now the second volume of Collected Works of Lyndon LaRouche at the printer, so you can expect that to come out fairly soon. That will be a beautiful collection especially of cultural writings, on music, on poetry, and you should definitely put in an order right now.

And then the LaRouche Library which is being developed by the LaRouche Legacy Foundation is also making tremendous progress. So, you should go to the website and look for it yourself. It’s an enormous amount of work because my late husband was an extremely prolific writer: In the times when he was in his best capacity, he would write up to 80 pages a day! And not just articles, but with footnotes, with graphics, with everything, so that editors had almost no work to finish the article for production. He authored, I would say, the equivalent of—I would say over 100 books, and thousands of articles. And there are also many videos, audios, communications of all kinds. So, it’s an enormous amount of work, but we will make it all available, because I think to study Lyndon LaRouche at this time, to study his economic theories, to study his analysis of history, his incredible insights into Classical composition, that is, I would say the most important thing you can read at this moment.

Schlanger: Helga, those are the questions I have for you. I think it would be useful in summary, for you to once again give people a sense of what the intention is from this conference on April 13, “The Oasis Plan: The LaRouche Solution for Peace Through Development Between Israel and Palestine and for All of Southwest Asia.”

Zepp-LaRouche: This coming Friday we will have another Zoom meeting of the International Peace Coalition. It will be very important, and you should contact us to be connected and be part of it. Because we will have guests—two or three members of the VIPS, the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, to discuss the memorandum they wrote to Biden on Macron’s proposal to bring troops into Ukraine, and the danger of nuclear war. We very likely will have a leading retired military officer from France, who will be in a dialogue with these VIPS people: So that will be an extremely fascinating event. I can tell you, one of them will be Ray McGovern, and there will be others. So you should join that, because you should want to be part of an International Peace Coalition: We have to unify all peace-loving people around the world to be strong enough, because you have many groups, here and there, but since they’re not unified, their voices are not sufficient to really influence the policy. So that’s the first thing.

Then, on April 13, we will have this Oasis Plan conference. We will have an extraordinary combination of speakers, from Palestine, from other countries from the region: experts on water, on desalination, on nuclear energy, on all kinds of aspects of the realization of the Oasis Plan. Try to help us build that conference: Get invitations to all elected officials, to all members of parliament, city councils, state legislators, mayors, other groups that should be concerned. And let’s build a movement for peace through development. I think that’s the most important thing you can do right now.

Schlanger: OK. I think that’s all we have time for, Helga. Thanks for joining us this week. And as always, we expect to see you again, next week.

Zepp-LaRouche: Yes, and try to become active with us.