Schiller Institute Weekly Dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche

Showdown at the United Nations:
The Global South’s Challenge to the Unipolar Order

The following is an edited transcript of the Sept. 26, 2024, weekly Schiller Institute dialogue with Schiller Institute founder and leader Helga Zepp-LaRouche. Embedded links and subheads have been added. The video is available here.

Harley Schlanger: Hello and welcome to our weekly dialogue with Schiller Institute founder and leader Helga Zepp-LaRouche. It’s Thursday, September 26, 2024. I’m Harley Schlanger, and I’ll be your host today. You can send questions and comments by email to questions@schillerinstitute.org or post them to the chat page.

Helga, much of the world’s attention has been focussed these last days on the ongoing UN General Assembly meeting in New York City. The issue of war and peace are a central concern that’s being taken up, as the NATO war against Russia threatens to expand into World War III, and as Netanyahu and Israel are expanding their war into southern Lebanon with brutal results. Zelensky, the Ukrainian acting President, gave an unhinged speech to the UNGA yesterday, demanding more war aid and the freedom to attack Russia. U.S. President Biden is under relentless pressure from London to give Ukraine the go-ahead to send missiles deep into Russian territory, and yesterday Russian President Putin issued a revised nuclear doctrine. What changes did he make, and what are the implications of these changes?

Helga Zepp-LaRouche: The world is better waking up to where we are at. De facto, Putin has really made the red line so clear for everyone to see, that, if there would be even an attack from a country with only conventional weapons, but backed by a country which has nuclear weapons, and if there would be a massive air attack, that would give Russia the right, according to its new doctrine, to answer that with nuclear weapons. Now, that is very clearly referring to Ukraine, given the fact that various Russian spokesmen, from Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov to Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, and Putin himself, have made very clear that all these Ukrainian attacks would not be possible without U.S. or NATO guidance, satellite support, data support; and then, de facto, NATO is practically on the verge of being at war with Russia already; and that if that additional step is taken—that Biden would capitulate to the demand that the United States gives the go-ahead to Ukraine for the use of long-range missiles to strike deeply into Russia—then that condition is fulfilled. So, we are on the edge. And I can only say, these Western commentators, like in Germany, who are basically still saying “Putin is bluffing,” these people are so absolutely out of their minds that one can only say we are really in danger of being governed by madmen and the media which are completely in the service of such madmen.

The only answer at this point is a broad public discussion. The demonstrations which are planned for the next period, both in the United States but also in Germany, in particular, they must be made a clear demonstration of the thinking of masses of people—at best hundreds of thousands or millions of people—that they absolutely oppose this. And there must be finally the long-needed discussion of where we are at and why this present policy of trying to maintain “hegemony,” when that hegemony is clearly already out of the window, that has to be reversed. And we have to put a completely different approach on the agenda, such as what we have been discussing for almost three years now: a new security and development architecture, which really must take a completely different approach—stop this geopolitical confrontation, and go into a mode of cooperation with the Global Majority of countries that are clearly moving in a different direction.

But if people are not listening to this alarm bell, it may be too late for all of humanity.

Schlanger: The other country that’s a geopolitical target of the West, and you just returned from a quick trip there— What was your sense of being in China? I know you haven’t been there for a while. What’s the situation there?

Zepp-LaRouche: I have not been there for a year, and the interesting thing is, every time you return to China, even if it’s only a year in the meantime, you are completely, positively shocked about the changes for improvement and betterment. The occasion why I traveled there, this time, was for International Peace Day on Sept. 21, and I participated in significant celebrations in Shandong Province, in Jinan and Weifang. And this was a rather significant conference addressed by people from many, many countries who basically celebrated China’s contribution to a completely different approach.

Now, the remarkable thing is that China has clearly made the breakthrough of being the leading country in many, many faculties—I don’t have the exact number now, but it’s something like 65 areas, in which China is now leading in about 55. So, it’s long past the point where intellectual property has to be protected from China, because in the meantime, China is leading! China was the first country to have landed a spacecraft on the far side of the Moon—now twice. They just returned a very successful mission, bringing materials back from the far side of the Moon—there has been nobody else before that. And similarly, we visited in this several-day celebration some of the high-tech firms where China is at the state-of-the-art in optics, in various new technologies, also in robotics, in automated factories, and in high-tech farms.

And I can only say, I first visited China in 1971, and I also went to the countryside then. There was no mechanization there; people were really, extremely poor, practically on a Sub-Saharan level. And now, they have “smart” agriculture, which is integrated with all kinds of digitization and smart technologies. Absolutely nothing can be found like that in Europe or in the United States. And people are generally happy.

The idea that China is broadcasting propaganda—selling a narrative—is totally off. China is doing what they’re saying! They’re improving the lives of their own people, and the reason why the Chinese model is so much more attractive, is because they’re improving the lives of people around the world—especially in Africa, Asian countries—and that is expressed in a completely different attitude. Now, it is not that the West is competing with the narrative. The West is still thinking that it’s the question of the narrative, while China is doing it in reality and improving the lives of so many people. So, the contrast could not be greater.

This Peace Day, which was organized by the Chinese People’s Association for Peace and Development, was an absolute demonstration that a different model of cooperation is possible, and is the way to peace. And the idea of peace through development is a reality of what this new model really is a reality of what this new model really is a reality of what this new model really puts on the table.

Schlanger: We just got a message in from Bob van Hee; I believe he’s still an elected official in Minnesota, responding to what you said on Putin. He says: “Mr. Putin’s most recent statements concerning U.S. involvement in supplying weapons to Ukraine—to me, it’s a perfect timing to wake up the world to the stupidity on the part of the so-called U.S. leadership.” He urges that a message be drafted to our elected officials, for people to make their voices heard to stop this insanity, and he says, if we draft such a message, “I and others will send it to our leaders in D.C., to stop the stupidity of being complicit with Ukraine’s involvement in attacking Russia.” So that’s from one supporter in Minnesota.

Helga, you mentioned the importance of the Global Majority as seen at the United Nations moving against the policies of the U.S. and NATO. There’s a question here from someone who says, “I hear you talk about the Global South, but the Global South is not really unified. It’s not powerful enough. How could they take on the City of London and NATO?”

Zepp-LaRouche: The Global South is a very diverse combination of countries. They are trying to create a new system. There will be the annual summit of the BRICS in Kazan, in Russia, on Oct. 22-24. And while I’m not privy to the plans which are being made for that summit, all signs are that you may have a major step forward in the effort to create a different payment system, a different credit system; that all the efforts to enhance the economic power of the Global South countries will be brought a big step forward.

Now, it could be a surprise: It could be a New Bretton Woods, which is mooted in an article by Pepe Escobar. I don’t have any facts to think that that will happen—it could happen. In any case, the key question is that we have to convince the countries of the Global North—of the collective West or of NATO—that they should cooperate. We cannot have a situation where the world is being divided into two new blocs: where you have NATO becoming “Global NATO,” with confrontation; the Middle East on the verge of a potential regional war that could go out of control; the situation in Ukraine absolutely on the verge of catastrophe; then more provocations in the Taiwan Straits, in the South China Sea. We have to get off this course of confrontation, or else, a mistake— The situation is so absolutely tense, that a slight human error, a technical failure, some series of mishaps, could end civilization! We are at that point.

So, it’s not the question of the Global South against the Global North. We have to absolutely come to the point, where we in the West have to say we will cooperate. The BRICS countries are moving in the right direction. China is having, clearly, a completely different approach: They’re thinking about a long-term, harmonious development of all nations. They’re not trying to gain hegemony. I really have studied this for a half-century, and there is absolutely no way China wants to replace the U.S. hegemon—that’s not their intention. And it would be very, very easy for the countries of the collective West to just say, “We will cooperate with that new system which is emerging,” because we have enough problems we have to solve together: overcoming poverty, underdevelopment, creating a health system for the whole world—make sure that every child has access to universal education. There are so many problems, which best would be solved together. And that is the absolute step we have to take, and we have the choice: Do we want to have World War III, if we stick to this confrontation against China, Russia, and by implication the Global South? Or, do we go in the direction of thinking we can solve all problems together? And that is a question where everybody, personally, is challenged to participate in creating the solution.

Schlanger: We have another question about the BRICS summit coming up, from a supporter who works with African governments and non-governmental organizations. He says he has two questions about the BRICS summit coming up on Oct. 22-24: “Is it possible that they would be ready to introduce a new currency, because I fear if they wait too long, the U.S. and the Brits will sabotage their initiative?” And secondly, he asks: “Will you be there, or the Schiller Institute have representatives there? I think it’s important that the Schiller Institute be there to help shape the discussion.”

Zepp-LaRouche: There are efforts to move in the direction of a new currency, but it’s not an easy question. Just think about the mistakes which were made in the creation of the euro, because you cannot put economies and countries of completely different levels of economic development into one, integrated economic and currency zone, without creating massive problems for those that are less developed. This has to be very carefully crafted, and I know that there are some excellent economists, both in Russia and in China, putting a great amount of effort into this task.

I can only say, between moving too quickly and moving too slowly, I don’t think that the danger comes from that. The only danger is that forces in the West, like the British, have demonstrated with Keir Starmer’s visit to Washington, that they’re trying to go for the military confrontation in order to compensate for the weakness in their economies; that the effort to dampen the new economic system will be in the military field, bringing us into World War III—that is the danger.

The Schiller Institute, EIR, we will cover, for sure, the event. However, our efforts to shape what is going on will not be in Kazan, because that will be a government meeting. But we will provide all kinds of solutions, like, in particular, the idea of the new level of the new development and security architecture, which is what the Schiller Institute is promoting. Similarly, China is going in the direction of what Xi Jinping has proposed as the Global Security Initiative, the Global Development Initiative, and the Global Civilizational Initiative, which are going in a similar direction. There is a great affinity. But our unique contribution is to try to educate the people in the West about the incredible potential that would exist, if they stopped their geopolitical spectacle—get that off their nose—and think in terms of cooperation on a completely new level; thinking of humanity as it should be 100 years from now, and then take that wisdom of the future to solve the problems in the present.

Schlanger: Helga, I have two questions on the state elections that just took place last Sunday, Sept. 22, in Germany. One writes: “After the Chancellor Olaf Scholz coalition was devastated by voters in three German states, what next? Wait one year for the national elections, or can there be something done to stop the damage they’re doing?” And the second question is: “How powerful is the extreme right in Europe and Germany?”

Zepp-LaRouche: The election results in these three states, Thuringia, Saxony, and Brandenburg, have clearly completely changed the political situation in Germany. The best outcome is the disappearance—the pulverization of the Greens. Some people have said this is the Cranes of Ibykus, referring to Schiller’s poem, in which the culprits reveal themselves and are brought to justice by their own failure to keep the crime hidden. Now the crime the Greens have committed is the complete destruction of the German economy. They got the bill presented, the leadership resigned, and the Green youth organization, not only did the entire leadership resign, but they also left the party, hinting that they want to create a new party of the left, which means that the Greens—at least for the time being—are finished.

And that is a good thing, because the Green policy is what has been the most devastating element in the destruction of the German economy, apart from the geopolitical factors, like the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline, which has become an issue, by the way, as well, again. Because the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service just put out a statement that they are certain that the Nord Stream pipeline was sabotaged by the British and the Americans.

But in terms of the elections, it could very well be that this present coalition government will not last for another year. There are many factors involved, in which all these parties are in turmoil. The Social Democrats, should they keep Scholz, the alternative would be Defense Minister Boris Pistorius, which is even worse, because he wants to make Germany “war ready.” Germany needs to really have a clear rejection of the war policy. That rejection is what unites the AfD, at least in part, with Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht (BSW). That’s a positive element.

The problem is that the right wing, what you summarize by “right wing,” is a very mixed bag: There are many people who are quite reasonable, who are for all the right policies, rejecting the war policy of NATO, being for nuclear energy, being for all kinds of things that one can support. But the problem is that they keep certain very unholy elements within their party which they should kick out, and then one could work with them—but so far, they have been unwilling to do that.

So, we are seeing a tectonic change, and the problem is that the mass media prevents people from having an idea of the alternative. For example, if you ask the general people in Germany, what do they know about the BRICS, they know almost nothing; they have no idea what a tremendous chance for the future is emerging there. For example, Germany, being an export nation, it would be the most natural thing for Germany to cooperate with growing markets. If Germany would participate with other countries of the BRICS—and hopefully so would other European countries and even the United States—to create 2-3 billion new productive jobs, in Africa, in Asia, in Latin America, that would be the way to solve the migrant problems, in a humane way.

Africa will have 2.5 billion people by the year 2050, and the only way there will be a positive future, and not hundreds of thousands of migrants coming to Europe, drowning in the Mediterranean, or being pushed by the EU’s border guards in Frontex, in a disgusting way—which has been happening so far—would be that Europe turns around and says, “We will cooperate with the BRICS in creating two billion new productive jobs by 2050; in helping Africa to modernize.” That would require joint ventures between China and European nations, and other nations around the world. That is the direction in which we have to push the whole thing, and then there is hope.

Schlanger: We have a question from a professor, who says: “With the decision to allow Ukraine to strike deep inside Russia, if that happens, and to deploy nuclear missiles in Germany, do we need a surge of people in NATO countries to flood the streets, as they did in the campaign against the Euro-missiles in the 1980s?”

Zepp-LaRouche: That is clearly what we have to accomplish, because the situation right now is that all signs indicate preparations for war. There is talk that German society must be prepared to handle soon, a very large number of wounded people coming back from all kinds of fronts in the East. The Red Cross is even being told they have to be integrated into such a system. The health system in Germany is supposed to prioritize the wounded from the coming wars—I mean, this is insanity!

And fortunately, there are now more people waking up to this danger. The next big demonstration will be on Oct. 3, in Berlin, and it is required that we really make sure this demonstration becomes a very, very big one. So, if you have any chance, please help building that. On Sept. 28, there will be a big rally in the United States. That should be absolutely made as large as possible. And we have to really arouse the people. If you know your neighbors, your colleagues, talk to them about it! Talk to them, because people have somehow lost a memory of the last world wars, in the 20th Century, and the younger generations seem to have been so much influenced by computer war games, that they have lost the sense of what it means when you have cities like Dresden being flattened by mass bombings, and the misery which went along with that. In one of the last meetings of the International Peace Coalition (IPC), we had a professor from Germany who had lived in Dresden as a young boy, when the bombing occurred, and he was very emotional about reporting it. That reality must be brought home to people nowadays, because if it comes to a Third World War, there are many countries of which nothing would be left. And if it becomes a global war, which is very likely once you start to use nuclear weapons, all civilization will vanish, as the nuclear war would be followed by ten years of nuclear winter.

The likelihood that the people who think they can survive that in their bunkers, which is a very small percentage of privileged people, that will be a nightmare which will not function in reality, because the idea that you can live for several years in a bunker and then come out and continue your life is not a very realistic perspective. But that’s what some people are discussing these days!

Schlanger: We have two more questions on the media issue, and also requests for you to give people a better sense of how to organize around it. One is from the UK, where someone writes: “The media labels anyone against the narrative as ‘far right.’ But is there really a ‘far right’ in Germany? What are their policies?”

And the other question is from Pat, who writes: “The mainstream media controls much of the population. How can truth come to expose that stranglehold? What do we have to do to get the truth to people?”

Zepp-LaRouche: There is a sort of poem by Friedrich Schiller, a distich, in which he writes, “If you cannot be a whole, then attach yourself to one.” In German, it’s Wenn Du kein Ganzes sein kannst, dann schließe einem Ganzen Dich an. And that is true, because if you are only an individual, you feel almost helpless before what we are facing. That is why you should tomorrow join the International Peace Coalition meeting. This is an effort to unite the international peace movement, which we have been undertaking since well over a year now. Tomorrow will be the 69th consecutive meeting, where we are meeting every Friday, and we have been growing quite steadily. The last few meetings we have had more than 1,000 participants online, and then thousands more watching the video afterwards. And every week we discuss what to do. One of the earlier questioners asked: “Why don’t you put out a message?” Maybe we will present tomorrow a short message so that people have something to be armed with: to call elected officials, to use on social media, to talk to all your relatives, colleagues, friends—get them mobilized. Because we are really in an incredible moment of danger and, eventually— I’m quite confident that the control of the media is crumbling. The fact is that in Germany we had these election results, with two parties, the FDP Liberals and the Greens, becoming pulverized, and basically the population is expressing their concern with a clear statement against the war.

So, it’s not impossible. But I would say the most immediate thing you can do is to join the International Peace Coalition tomorrow; tell all your friends about it. We will have again an extraordinary combination of speakers. There is, to my knowledge, no platform which meets regularly with such high-level expert exchange of views, always on the topics of the day. And you can be sure that tomorrow we will discuss at length the implication of the fact that Russia has changed its nuclear doctrine, in response to the policies of NATO. And that is something that will get through to the population, because we are reaching now a point of almost no return—but not yet. There’s still time to do something.

Schlanger: On that, we have a message which just came in from someone who says: “My friend told me that I should get on the International Peace Coalition call last week. I was skeptical. I always thought that the LaRouche movement was somewhat marginal and the idea of taking on the international fight was somewhat hopeless. But I’m glad my friend persisted. She’s asked me for weeks to get on. I got on; it was incredible!” And she writes: “I urge everybody to join the call and get active.”

The call is at 11 a.m. Eastern Time, tomorrow. And this message shows that people are being moved by what we’re doing. The situation is in flux, there’s a vacuum for real discussion, because of the role of the media, but that’s what we’re doing—we’re changing that.

So, Helga, any closing words?

Zepp-LaRouche: This is clearly the most dangerous moment in world history, ever. And rather than hiding, and thinking, “How can I preserve my personal life,”—which in the Second World War, those people who tried to avoid the war, they ended up being hit, because it ended up there was no hiding place. And the danger of a Third World War—there is no hiding place for sure! So, mobilize whatever positive image you have about humanity, and act on the basis of love for humanity. Because what motivates me the strongest, is the idea that if we don’t solve this problem, then all the beautiful things which have been created by generations before, will be lost: The music of Beethoven, of other composers; the poetry of all the beautiful poets around the world, will all have been composed for nothing. And that would be a shame!

So, it’s really something you have to mobilize inside yourself, to have the strength to be part of the solution, and stop this, and create a better world situation, with a new world economic order by cooperating with the BRICS countries, because that would be the easy way out.

Schlanger: Well, Helga, I know you’re tired from jet lag, and just getting back from your trip. But thank you for joining us today. And, again, everybody should join us tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time. You can register to get the link on the Schiller Institute website. So, until tomorrow, Helga, we’ll see you later.

Zepp-LaRouche: Till tomorrow!